God

[bigsharn]

Love is also a seed of murder, have you never heard of euthanasia?

[T3hRogue]

I'm pretty sure he went and messed up Egypt under the pretence of doing God's work. I noticed you ignored my second point

It seems like those plagues we committed by God Himself and Moses just held the stick and did the talking. Incidentally, each plague was an affront to a specific Egyptian god.

As for the second point, the one is a little tougher to answer because I'm guessing you think you are a pretty good person and I certainly am not going to argue with you about it, but within every one of us is the nature of a murderer and criminal. Given the right circumstance, you would kill and most people only obey the law when people are looking. Do you have pirated software on your computer? This would make you a criminal and I sure you hate somebody. Hate is the seed the grows into murder.

My point? Everyone is a murderer and criminal in their heart. So saying most of people that wrote the Bible are murderers and criminals is like saying most of the people in a room will die. Redundant- a silly argument.

I most certainly do not think of myself as a pretty good person. "Pretty good" depends on morals, and morals are dictated by society. I do not believe in morals, they are nothing but relative objections to behaviour.
There is nothing humane about humanity.
And that was a terrible analogy. The Bible is all about peace and love, yet God slew a man for refusing to ejaculate in his dead brother's wife. How is it possible that a omni-benevolent God would do such a thing, and use the flood, and even let a Hell exist.

[latch]

I most certainly do not think of myself as a pretty good person. "Pretty good" depends on morals, and morals are dictated by society. I do not believe in morals, they are nothing but relative objections to behaviour.
There is nothing humane about humanity.
And that was a terrible analogy. The Bible is all about peace and love, yet God slew a man for refusing to ejaculate in his dead brother's wife. How is it possible that a omni-benevolent God would do such a thing, and use the flood, and even let a Hell exist.

Morals are not dictated by society but they are required for society to function. God would be a passive nancy boy if He was afraid to punish evil for fear that you might say He is not omni-benevolent(He is NOT omni-benevolent so He's safe from your proclaimation). I bet you were thinking that was an obscure passage that those mindless theists never know about. I think I was also 13 when I first read about him and interestingly enough the finance term Onanism refers to premature withdrawal of investments.

Onan rebelliously refused to care for the widow of his brother as he was commanded- it was a minor detail that his seed spilled on the ground- but he did that to show contempt for his responsibility. Interesting that you would fixate on the sexual detail.

Man's behavior had fallen to the point that EVERY thought was evil- when that happens, what can you do but start over after a flood?

If there is heaven- I certainly don't want to spend my time in the company of Hilter and his ilk. Where to put them?

Each of these nit picking arguments are excuses to put yourself in judgment of God and His Bible. I am fairly certain that I know or can find answers for each of them. But if you don't want to know then there is no point. You can believe what you want and you will not sway me and I hope you're happy with your decision.

A salesman will not continue to try and sell you a car when you hate the color, the seats, the motor, the windows, the doors, and so on.

Some people get mad at their brother and angrily yell, "I have no brother!"

Wrong.

He still exists whether you like him or not.

oh and that was not an analogy.

Explaining things to God haters is always rife with tedium. How can prepubescence steeped in little but the fake world of video games profess to know so much? Is it your considerable life experience and great contemplative mental process. Are you a great philosopher who's got it all figured out because you have your PS3 connected to the net and your forum has 200 posts?

We should talk in ten years when you are old enough to be as stupid as you think adults are.

[T3hRogue]

I most certainly do not think of myself as a pretty good person. "Pretty good" depends on morals, and morals are dictated by society. I do not believe in morals, they are nothing but relative objections to behaviour.
There is nothing humane about humanity.
And that was a terrible analogy. The Bible is all about peace and love, yet God slew a man for refusing to ejaculate in his dead brother's wife. How is it possible that a omni-benevolent God would do such a thing, and use the flood, and even let a Hell exist.

Morals are not dictated by society but they are required for society to function. God would be a passive nancy boy if He was afraid to punish evil for fear that you might say He is not omni-benevolent(He is NOT omni-benevolent so He's safe from your proclaimation). I bet you were thinking that was an obscure passage that those mindless theists never know about. I think I was also 13 when I first read about him and interestingly enough the finance term Onanism refers to premature withdrawal of investments.

Onan rebelliously refused to care for the widow of his brother as he was commanded- it was a minor detail that his seed spilled on the ground- but he did that to show contempt for his responsibility. Interesting that you would fixate on the sexual detail.

Man's behavior had fallen to the point that EVERY thought was evil- when that happens, what can you do but start over after a flood?

If there is heaven- I certainly don't want to spend my time in the company of Hilter and his ilk. Where to put them?

Each of these nit picking arguments are excuses to put yourself in judgment of God and His Bible. I am fairly certain that I know or can find answers for each of them. But if you don't want to know then there is no point. You can believe what you want and you will not sway me and I hope you're happy with your decision.

A salesman will not continue to try and sell you a car when you hate the color, the seats, the motor, the windows, the doors, and so on.

Some people get mad at their brother and angrily yell, "I have no brother!"

Wrong.

He still exists whether you like him or not.

oh and that was not an analogy.

Explaining things to God haters is always rife with tedium. How can prepubescence steeped in little but the fake world of video games profess to know so much? Is it your considerable life experience and great contemplative mental process. Are you a great philosopher who's got it all figured out because you have your PS3 connected to the net and your forum has 200 posts?

We should talk in ten years when you are old enough to be as stupid as you think adults are.

My my, latch. Of course God is omni-benevolent. It says so in the Bible. Are you doubting God's own word that he loves all, knows all, and has the power over all?
And did Onan really do it to show contempt? As I read it, he cared for his brother too much to be 'cumming' in his wife. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't cum in my brothers wife if he died, because I'd have respect for him. Even a direct command from God wouldn't make me do that.
And what is evil? You're saying that men like Hitler, who did a lot of great things like put a country of what? 66million? out of hunger, only to kill 6million? I'm pretty sure one outweighs the other, and it's not the killing. Therefore, I implore you to find a meaning of 'evil' that isn't relative. Hitler certainly thought he was doing 'good'.
Besides, what this has to do with a omni-benevolent god wiping out humanity, unicorns and leprechauns for thinking 'evil' is beyond me. If God really felt that way, surely that is a human emotion that God should be above. He should have re-introduced himself somehow. Isn't this why he let Humans have free will in the first place?
I'm all up for answers. If you can give me answers that are completely true and cannot be argued against then go ahead. Show me the truth that will undoubtedly force me into believing God. If Muslims couldn't do it with a religion that is better than Christianity then what hope do you have?
And now you turn to belittling comments regarding age. I would have expected more of you. I might not be as experienced as you in the world, but that does not mean I can be less intelligent, or less able to think and argue valid points. If I had it all figured out, would I be here arguing the toss with you or preaching my divine cognitive abilities and ideas to the masses?
And to claim I think adults stupid is irrelevant, you have no proof and I do not think that.

So, this 'God hater' is ready to accept 'the truth'.

[latch]

My my, latch. Of course God is omni-benevolent. It says so in the Bible. Are you doubting God's own word that he loves all, knows all, and has the power over all?
And did Onan really do it to show contempt? As I read it, he cared for his brother too much to be 'cumming' in his wife. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't cum in my brothers wife if he died, because I'd have respect for him. Even a direct command from God wouldn't make me do that.
And what is evil? You're saying that men like Hitler, who did a lot of great things like put a country of what? 66million? out of hunger, only to kill 6million? I'm pretty sure one outweighs the other, and it's not the killing. Therefore, I implore you to find a meaning of 'evil' that isn't relative. Hitler certainly thought he was doing 'good'.
Besides, what this has to do with a omni-benevolent god wiping out humanity, unicorns and leprechauns for thinking 'evil' is beyond me. If God really felt that way, surely that is a human emotion that God should be above. He should have re-introduced himself somehow. Isn't this why he let Humans have free will in the first place?
I'm all up for answers. If you can give me answers that are completely true and cannot be argued against then go ahead. Show me the truth that will undoubtedly force me into believing God. If Muslims couldn't do it with a religion that is better than Christianity then what hope do you have?
And now you turn to belittling comments regarding age. I would have expected more of you. I might not be as experienced as you in the world, but that does not mean I can be less intelligent, or less able to think and argue valid points. If I had it all figured out, would I be here arguing the toss with you or preaching my divine cognitive abilities and ideas to the masses?
And to claim I think adults stupid is irrelevant, you have no proof and I do not think that.

So, this 'God hater' is ready to accept 'the truth'.

I'm going to address the age thing first. I debated back and forth as to whether I would include that- in the end, my writer's pride won. Of course, wished I hadn't before you responded. This a fine example of my imperfection and I do apologize. Plus if you are truly are looking for the Truth, then I owe to you believe that you are not wasting my time. That aside, I will change gears. You ask your questions and I will answer them as if the Bible was fact and God exists.

I think in the case of the omnibenevolence, we may be arguing semantics. From the perspective of those who are to be punished, I can't expect them to say he's omnibenevolent. He will punish them all and will not stay his hand because some one says, "But but I thought you were omnibenevolent!" The joy joy flowers and happiness god the world conceptualizes is inaccurate. That is a man made measuring stick.

Evil is disobeying God and that is not relative. If we pretend he made the universe, He owns this universe and He makes the rules. Evil was created when He was disobeyed.

Then Judah said to Onan, “Sleep with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to raise up offspring for your brother.” 9 But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother.

I highlighted why he did that- this was not in love for his brother.

I am unaware of leprechauns being in the Bible, but unicorns are. In our day and age, the word unicorn summons the image of one horned horses from the movie Legend and such. The word that was translated unicorn has a literal meaning in Hebrew of 'a wild bull' and modern translations render the word as 'the wild ox.' Wild oxen were not wiped out in the flood- in fact the mention of unicorns are after the deluge. Another example of an animal nomenclature disparity is in this passage:

And thou shalt make a covering for the tent of rams' skins dyed red, and a covering above of badgers' skins.

There were no badgers in that area of the middle east. Another translation renders it as porpoise. In truth, we don't know what the animal was, but some suspect it was the dugong. I doubt the King James scholars were aware of the existence of such an animal indigenous to the Mediterranean sea so they took a guess. How you name an animal, will not harm doctrine.

God did re-introduce Himself when He entered His creation as a man. God has 2 attributes that are both infinite an appear to contradict themselves when dealing with fallen man. Holiness and Love. His Holiness demands absolute perfection and we see a lot judgment in the old testament as a result of this attribute. There sacrifices that cover the sin of man, but it never takes it away. In the new testament, we see His love in the fact He provides Himself as the sacrifice. The is the basis for my "religion." Only this simple Truth is required. Not doing good and trying fix your behavior.

Yes, God is always good, but not to those who reject what He did.

I am not going to go into Islam here.

[T3hRogue]

May I ask what branch of Christianity you are, before we continue this debate. I fear you are not the mainstream evangelist I so strongly hate

[latch]

May I ask what branch of Christianity you are, before we continue this debate. I fear you are not the mainstream evangelist I so strongly hate

I am far from mainstream and I was feeling the hate.

The truth is not very popular- I don't believe in imposing my morality on nonbelievers, tithing, working on my holiness to get closer to God. I don't believe its God's job to make sure I feel blessed every second and I don't believe He heals on demand very often. I don't believe I'm entitled to anything special here on this earth as a believer. I don't believe that Christians are better people and I don't believe I am right all the time about everything. True Christianity is not so plastic fake. I'm a regular dude that makes mistakes and errors in judgment often, but through umpteen hours of research, I have come to believe as I do now.

My mind is constantly open and I used to fear the tough questions that threatened my faith, but I discovered that answers are there and they can be found. Interestingly, the truth about ANYTHING in this world has to be sought out as everything these days is surrounded by lies.

[Special Chris]

You could have summed that up REALLY easily with:

"I'm not a bible thumper"

[latch]

You could have summed that up REALLY easily with:

"I'm not a bible thumper"

Eh. That term is open to interpretation. I'd rather be a little more definitive in my response.

[T3hRogue]

Hmph. Well that's ruined my fun.
What's your view on abortion and euthanasia and such?