+- howtothings.co.uk (https://www.howtothings.co.uk)
+-- Forum: Open Discussion (https://www.howtothings.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Forum: The Lounge (https://www.howtothings.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=18)
+--- Thread: God (/showthread.php?tid=524)
RE: God - latch - 23-11-2010
(22-11-2010, 07:09 PM)T3hRogue Wrote: Hmph. Well that's ruined my fun.
What's your view on abortion and euthanasia and such?
Heh. Well, I'm sure there are plenty of holier than thous out there for you challenge.
Anyways, in reference to your question, both are murder. I would vote to stop them from being legal, but I don't think I have the strength to obey God in every instance.
I don't have a problem standing against abortion(and I several reasons for this), but there are several possibilities when I can see myself actually BEING the killer in euthanasia. A wounded soldier who can't flee, when torturing enemies are coming. A loved one in pain. It is still murder. Tough to swallow, but that's the fact.
RE: God - T3hRogue - 23-11-2010
Isn't murder the purposeful killing of an innocent?
And nobody is innocent, by default (I doubt any Human is perfect, do you believe in original sin?) then is it murder?
And, if you don't mind, why is abortion so wrong. Even if it saved another life?
RE: God - latch - 23-11-2010
(23-11-2010, 07:10 PM)T3hRogue Wrote: Isn't murder the purposeful killing of an innocent?
And nobody is innocent, by default (I doubt any Human is perfect, do you believe in original sin?) then is it murder?
And, if you don't mind, why is abortion so wrong. Even if it saved another life?
The first question forced me to look it up and I'll get back to that when I type about abortion.
Yes, I believe in original sin. It looks like on the outside Adam and Eve didn't die at the moment they sinned, but they did. God is spirit and His Spirit left them at that instant effectively rendering them dead to Him. His Spirit was no longer in them and He, from that time on, had nothing in common with them- no communion. Sadly, the universe was damaged and is now wearing out like a garment(2nd law of thermodynamics and Hebrews 1:11).
Each human receives that damaged nature from his father- it effectively being passed all the way from Adam. This is why it was important that Jesus had no earthly father because He didn't get the sin nature passed to Him. He had to be perfect to be an appropriate sacrifice. God's infinite holiness demands perfection which us fallen humans can never achieve. This covers half of the gospel, but I won't go further at this point.
It can be argued when the raw materials of human meat become a human. It could really be said that since humans are mostly 5 feet tall or more that they are not humans until they are- they are prehumans and should be treated as such. Or real humans don't have hairlips or extra toes. With arguments like this, there has to be someone to settle the matter. God claims to have created the universe so I listen to Him. Psalm 139:13 talks about Him knitting us together in the womb- not knitting the fetus glob of cells which would become me. At the moment of conception, that speck has everything it needs to grow a person if left unhindered.
The real prevalence of abortion and loudest pro choice voice came into view when Margaret Higgins Sanger Slee open her first birth control clinic in 1916. This was the beginning of Planned Parenthood in America. Her purpose was to get rid of the lesser evolved 'races' by taking them out as infants. Eugenicists believe that the human gene-pool should be controlled by them- predominately rich white folk. The pro choice movement as it is euphemistically named really is rich snobs tricking the poor into slaughtering their children. In the case of rape- it seems tough, but the answer is the same. It is not the child's fault and they shouldn't be killed for it- the rapist should... by the state. Most of the time though, it is merely used by the mother or the father for convenience because they are out of wedlock. A very small percentage of abortion are because of rape.
In the case of the pregnancy endangering the life of the mother, this is a tough call. However, If the mother dies and the child lives there is no murder- a 'natural' death. If the child is pulled out, now the mother lives and the child is murdered. If both die, there is no murder. I could not find anything about "murder by inaction."
Murder:
the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law
first–degree murder
: a murder that is committed with premeditation
Now, if they pretend that they don't know it's human or really don't know, it's only:
second–degree murder
: a murder that is committed without premeditation but with some intent
RE: God - T3hRogue - 24-11-2010
So you think it's fair to pin the blame on every human for one man's foolishness?
And that Jesus was truly pure? A lot is not covered about Jesus. Did he engage in sexual intercourse? Did he binge drink? The only things written about Jesus are positive things (excluding his rage in the Synagogue, and surely that caused loss of earnings? Why could he not ask them nicely? Surely if he was God's son he could have moved them without being so aggressive?) For all we know, Jesus might have been a real human, using that term loosely, acting as one in that time would have.
So wait, you've confused me. Did God enter the body at conception, or when the foetus is starting to look like a human (around 24 weeks)?
Thus, are you pro-evolution w/ religious sanctity or anti-evolution. The former conflicting with your opinions and the latter being foolish for someone of your obvious intelligence to deny...
Once I see your reply I can begin conjuring traps to ensnare you. You'd be surprised at the amount of people who get caught by contradicting themselves. Even I do it
RE: God - de Baphomet - 24-11-2010
Quote:I'm all up for answers. If you can give me answers that are completely true and cannot be argued against then go ahead. Show me the truth that will undoubtedly force me into believing God. If Muslims couldn't do it with a religion that is better than Christianity then what hope do you have?There is nothing to undoubtedly force you into believing God. I am a Muslim, and to be honest, it is no words of others that can bring you to believe in God. I was born a Muslim, but I lost my faith at the age of 10. I've only recently brought it back.
But it's not through rational explanations or 100% proof that you will ever believe in God. The belief in God is in very many ways, spiritual. You need to go through some kind of pain before you have a strong faith in God and very much at the same time, I will ask you to listen to the Qu'ran, and try to read it. I haven't read it in English, so I don't know if it is enlightening in this language, but dear god if you have an open mindset to the belief in god, the Qu'ran has this kind of spiritually cleansing after affect of reading it.
Quote:So you think it's fair to pin the blame on every human for one man's foolishness?As for Jesus, he wasn't truly pure. From an Islamic perspective, no human was truly pure. And, in trying to respect Christianity, I'm gonna ignore a lot of that just to say this, there is no real reason to abort a baby if it does not risk the mother's life, the baby doesn't have a good chance of surviving, or it was a result of a rape.
And that Jesus was truly pure? A lot is not covered about Jesus. Did he engage in sexual intercourse? Did he binge drink? The only things written about Jesus are positive things (excluding his rage in the Synagogue, and surely that caused loss of earnings? Why could he not ask them nicely? Surely if he was God's son he could have moved them without being so aggressive?) For all we know, Jesus might have been a real human, using that term loosely, acting as one in that time would have.
So wait, you've confused me. Did God enter the body at conception, or when the foetus is starting to look like a human (around 24 weeks)?
Thus, are you pro-evolution w/ religious sanctity or anti-evolution. The former conflicting with your opinions and the latter being foolish for someone of your obvious intelligence to deny...
Once I see your reply I can begin conjuring traps to ensnare you. You'd be surprised at the amount of people who get caught by contradicting themselves. Even I do it
Otherwise, shouldda used a condom or not had sex at all. In which case it's from the parents being idiots and they need to learn that lesson. A life, even in a non-religious point of view is important. If you look at it in purely numerical terms it's easy to be baffled as to why a life matters, but they do.
RE: God - T3hRogue - 25-11-2010
(24-11-2010, 11:27 PM)de Baphomet Wrote:Quote:I'm all up for answers. If you can give me answers that are completely true and cannot be argued against then go ahead. Show me the truth that will undoubtedly force me into believing God. If Muslims couldn't do it with a religion that is better than Christianity then what hope do you have?There is nothing to undoubtedly force you into believing God. I am a Muslim, and to be honest, it is no words of others that can bring you to believe in God. I was born a Muslim, but I lost my faith at the age of 10. I've only recently brought it back.
But it's not through rational explanations or 100% proof that you will ever believe in God. The belief in God is in very many ways, spiritual. You need to go through some kind of pain before you have a strong faith in God and very much at the same time, I will ask you to listen to the Qu'ran, and try to read it. I haven't read it in English, so I don't know if it is enlightening in this language, but dear god if you have an open mindset to the belief in god, the Qu'ran has this kind of spiritually cleansing after affect of reading it.
Quote:So you think it's fair to pin the blame on every human for one man's foolishness?As for Jesus, he wasn't truly pure. From an Islamic perspective, no human was truly pure. And, in trying to respect Christianity, I'm gonna ignore a lot of that just to say this, there is no real reason to abort a baby if it does not risk the mother's life, the baby doesn't have a good chance of surviving, or it was a result of a rape.
And that Jesus was truly pure? A lot is not covered about Jesus. Did he engage in sexual intercourse? Did he binge drink? The only things written about Jesus are positive things (excluding his rage in the Synagogue, and surely that caused loss of earnings? Why could he not ask them nicely? Surely if he was God's son he could have moved them without being so aggressive?) For all we know, Jesus might have been a real human, using that term loosely, acting as one in that time would have.
So wait, you've confused me. Did God enter the body at conception, or when the foetus is starting to look like a human (around 24 weeks)?
Thus, are you pro-evolution w/ religious sanctity or anti-evolution. The former conflicting with your opinions and the latter being foolish for someone of your obvious intelligence to deny...
Once I see your reply I can begin conjuring traps to ensnare you. You'd be surprised at the amount of people who get caught by contradicting themselves. Even I do it
Otherwise, shouldda used a condom or not had sex at all. In which case it's from the parents being idiots and they need to learn that lesson. A life, even in a non-religious point of view is important. If you look at it in purely numerical terms it's easy to be baffled as to why a life matters, but they do.
A Muslim? My best mate is Muslim, not Sunni (the Jihad one?)
I've read a bit of the Qu'ran in English, and it wasn't that impressive through mistranslations. I made said Muslim friend explain it to me, and personally I think Islam is 10x the religion Christianity is. It has little arguments that science disagrees with, if any.
Anywho, the Qu'ran is good, but only how you interpret it. Since it's rather metaphorical it can mess up my view, as I am a rather literal person.
I'm aware of Jesus being but a prophet in Islam, and nothing but one, and thus he is not pure like Allah. But doesn't Allah teach sanctity to all things, so surely even in case of rape abortion should not be allowed? Human life takes priority over everything, I'm led to believe, even the consumption of bacon.
Also, I lol at my tab: "Post Reply to God"
RE: God - latch - 25-11-2010
(24-11-2010, 07:46 PM)T3hRogue Wrote: So you think it's fair to pin the blame on every human for one man's foolishness?
And that Jesus was truly pure? A lot is not covered about Jesus. Did he engage in sexual intercourse? Did he binge drink? The only things written about Jesus are positive things (excluding his rage in the Synagogue, and surely that caused loss of earnings? Why could he not ask them nicely? Surely if he was God's son he could have moved them without being so aggressive?) For all we know, Jesus might have been a real human, using that term loosely, acting as one in that time would have.
So wait, you've confused me. Did God enter the body at conception, or when the foetus is starting to look like a human (around 24 weeks)?
Thus, are you pro-evolution w/ religious sanctity or anti-evolution. The former conflicting with your opinions and the latter being foolish for someone of your obvious intelligence to deny...
Once I see your reply I can begin conjuring traps to ensnare you. You'd be surprised at the amount of people who get caught by contradicting themselves. Even I do it
Life isn't fair. We are born with a penchant for sin. Sin is missing the mark. The mark of perfection- only God is perfect. We are not God. He is. And the meaning of life is to find out who He is.
I am glad you jumped right to the pertinent question(Who is Jesus). Unfortunately you are all over them place after that, but I will try to cope.
There are several things that could be viewed wrongs that He did. The worst of it is when He claimed to be God(John 8:58). That was punishable by death in accordance with law. At conception.
Evolution is a theory that is taught as a fact of science.
Science is knowledge derived through observation and study.
There are several branches of evolution.
Cosmic evolution: the origin of time, space, and matter from nothing in the “big bang”
Chemical evolution: all elements “evolved” from hydrogen
Stellar evolution: stars and planets formed from gas clouds
Organic evolution: life begins from inanimate matter
Macro-evolution: animals and plants change from one type into another
Micro-evolution: variations form within the “kind”
Only the last one has been observed and studied- I believe in that one. The others are speculation and not science.
I saw that too 'reply to God' Heh
RE: God - T3hRogue - 25-11-2010
Surely God cannot be omni-benevolent then, as we already discussed?
Ah, but you missed the point, did he sin?
Conception, right? So the moment a sperm gets it off with an egg, so to speak, God is there. He just appears, and let's the other sperm die. Also, if that is the case why does he allow things like cystic fibrosis?
You believe in variations within a species, but how wide does this species path go? Hominoidea, apes, come from the same path as Homosapiens, being in the same "species" but differing in sub-species. Yet God created man exactly in his image.
Also, if that is true, then how have humans been able to grow, and flourish physically? Is this natural selection, or divine selection?
RE: God - latch - 25-11-2010
(25-11-2010, 02:15 AM)T3hRogue Wrote: Surely God cannot be omni-benevolent then, as we already discussed?
Ah, but you missed the point, did he sin?
Conception, right? So the moment a sperm gets it off with an egg, so to speak, God is there. He just appears, and let's the other sperm die. Also, if that is the case why does he allow things like cystic fibrosis?
You believe in variations within a species, but how wide does this species path go? Hominoidea, apes, come from the same path as Homosapiens, being in the same "species" but differing in sub-species. Yet God created man exactly in his image.
Also, if that is true, then how have humans been able to grow, and flourish physically? Is this natural selection, or divine selection?
Life isn't fair because this universe is damaged and is breaking down.
According to God, He didn't sin. He lived His life as God would if He was human.
There was no sperm. Mary was a virgin- that's why Joseph was going to cast her off to avoid scandal.
You mean why does God allow suffering? Imperfect humans= suffering. You take a bunch of humans and put them together in a room and they will find a way to suffer. This is like asking why God lets us live.
The answer is obvious- a star fish is not a variation of dog.
The species classification system is man made and therefore flawed and limited. Based off of attributes we find through study. There is only one mammal that produces venom and this attribute does not make it a spider or a snake.
RE: God - T3hRogue - 25-11-2010
Damaged and breaking down? Have you any proof? It's widely accepted that we are expanding.
According to God. Where did God tell you this? In the Bible? But there's so much of his life missing there.
You've missed the point, I'm not talking about Jesus. xD
I don't mean why does God allow suffering, I'll come to that later, I'm asking how could a God that designs humans in his image let a genetic fault such as CF be allowed. Even the most religious folk can get it, and they're closer to perfect. Is it right for God to punish his followers? If anything that's a turn off
You're saying in that argument that anything man made is flawed. Whilst that may be true, surely the Bible, written by Humans, is flawed too then? There is a contradiction here. God cannot directly influence Humans because he gave us free will, so therefore the Bible must be false, in some parts at minimum. If that is so then how can you believe in anything written there. Is your whole world now a lie?